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Review of LOCAL DEBT ADVISORS

Training to become a debt advisor, Debt Advisor Skills,
You Skills Ltd t/a Debt Advisor Skills, debtadvisorskills.co.uk,
Best Colleges Ltd t/a Debt Advisor College, multi-skilled energy assessor training,
Simon MacTaggart, Forbury Financial Ltd, Dermot Hanley, Assertor Ltd claims management company advising on claims for mis-sold mortgages and loans

This is one of a few examples of Business Opportunity Watch Reviews which are available for the public to view on the public section of the website. The reason for making a small sample of the reviews freely available is to help potential customers decide if they want to subscribe, and also to communicate some matters of general interest arising in the case of some of the reviews. All the other reviews are available only to subscribers. A zero score or a low score means that in our opinion the business model or the investment model has flaws and/or that we have found inadequate evidence to back up claims about earnings, sales, profits etc. It doesn't mean this evidence does not exist and it doesn't mean that the opportunity is a scam and it doesn't mean that the promoters are unprofessional or dishonest. Questions arising are normally contained within the body of the review, and readers who are interested should contact the company with these questions and/or questions of their own.

LOCAL DEBT ADVISORS
You Skills Ltd
Forbury Financial Ltd
Davidson House
Forbury Square
Reading
RG1 3EU
www.localdebtadvisors.co.uk
www.debtadvisorskills.co.uk

- Extract from sales copy
- Review
- Your feedback

Extract from sales copy:

Welcome to the Debt Advisor Skills website, the UK's only national Debt Advisor training organisation

The global credit crisis has had a major impact on the UK debt management industry which is experiencing unprecedented levels of demand for advice from millions of UK households experiencing combined debts of more than £1 trillion.

In its recent report, the Griffiths Commission on personal finance said that "the sheer scale of consumer debt has made millions of households extremely vulnerable to shocks in the economy, both from fiscal mismanagement and external factors" and "a downturn in the economy would create serious economic and social problems for the 15 million people who struggle with debt repayments."

There's never been a better time to start a new, exciting and rewarding career as a Debt Advisor in the UK and earn £40,000+ per year

This is a tsunami sized problem and clearly the opportunities for properly trained Debt Advisors in the UK, in this growing sector are excellent. This may be your chance to join them. By becoming a professional Debt Advisor you can not only help people who find themselves in these difficult financial circumstances, but at the same time build a lucrative and rewarding lifetime career.

Debt Advisor Skills courses are designed specifically for people without previous financial industry or debt counseling experience but who possess good people skills

The Debt Advisor courses have been designed to enable you to accommodate your existing lifestyle, work commitments and family life whilst training to become a Debt Advisor in the UK.

Each course covers a full introduction to the industry, historic scenario, basic business set-up, debtor solutions, compliance & legislation, Consumer Credit Licence, marketing strategy and client role play.

For those candidates selected for the Fast Track courses, our partner company LocalDebtAdvisors.co.uk also provides full mentoring in the field once the course, Diploma and Consumer Credit Licence are completed.

Your new career as a Debt Advisor

Once you've completed your Debt Advisor training and gained your Consumer Credit Licence, you can start your own Debt Advisor consultancy business and source your own work, be employed by a debt management organisation or work on a self-employed basis with a debt counselling company, such as LocalDebtAdvisors.co.uk, (a partner company of Debt Advisor Skills) and help people free themselves from the stress and turmoil of debt.

Candidates who are selected for and complete one of our Fast Track courses will invited to join LocalDebtAdvisors.co.uk and help people free themselves from the stress and turmoil of debt. LocalDebtAdvisors.co.uk aims to gain a substantial share of the national debt counselling market providing individuals with the most skilled and best trained Debt Advisors in the UK.

Due to Debt Advisor Skills demanding selection process and training program, only those selected to take one of our Fast Track courses are invited to join LocalDebtAdvisors.co.uk

Potential income

Debt Advisor Skills has estimated that an experienced Debt Advisor will be able to complete two cases per week as a minimum.

Current professional fees for Debt Advisors range from £125 to £1,000 for a completed case.

Review:

You Skills Ltd, trading as Debt Advisor Skills, offers to train you to become a debt advisor and, if you take their Fast Track course, they say that you will then be able to work for their sister company, Forbury Financial Ltd trading as Local Debt Advisors.

I had a number of questions about this offer, so I wrote to the MD of the two companies Simon MacTaggart, as follows:

1. Since your company You Skills Ltd trading as Debt Advisor Skills was only set up in March 2008 and was dormant until March 2009, how can you promise "a new, exciting and rewarding career as a Debt Advisor in the UK and earn £40,000+ per year"? Surely, with the time taken for training, you will so far have trained very few people, and certainly not people who have been working as debt advisors for a year or more? What evidence do you have for promising that your trainees will earn £40,000+ per year?

2. Normally, of course, if a person is selected to work for a company - and Debt Advisor Skills say that they have a "demanding selection process" - then their training is free. Is this the case here?

Although the Debt Advisor Skills website does not say that the training is free, neither does it make any mention of any cost for the training.

So is the training free? If not, how much is it and why doesn't the Debt Advisor Skills website state what the cost is?

3. How can you say that You Skills Ltd has suddenly sprung up as "the UK's only national Debt Advisor training organisation" when a number of far more senior organisations have been offering debt advisor training for years e.g.

Institute of Money Advisors
http://www.i-m-a.org.uk/training/

Advice UK
http://www.adviceuk.org.uk

Citizens Advice
www.citizensadvice.org.uk

4. When you say that You Skills Ltd is national, do you mean that You Skills Ltd holds training all over the UK, or do you mean that you train people who come from all over the UK?

5. The key to setting up a successful debt advice business is, of course, having good quality leads i.e. the contact details of people who are likely to be interested in your services. Presumably, Debt Advisor Skills does supply its trainees with leads - at least, those who are selected to work for Forbury Financial Ltd. What is the source of these leads? Do they come from Local Debt Advisors' own advertising, perhaps, and if so, where do you advertise?

According to the information you gave to the Advertising Standards Authority in connection with a complaint against your advert for "Trainee Debt Advisors Urgently Required ... Earn £150 - £1,000 per job Millions need your help NOW", Local Debt Advisors provides each Associate with 15 cases a month. What is the percentage of these cases which normally come to fruition, because according to my research about 70% of leads typically come to nothing?

6. Of course, there is a large and increasing number of people with debt problems. However, how could your trainees compete with the three major charities which offer free, independent advice and practical help - the Consumer Credit Counselling Service at www.cccs.co.uk and the Money Advice Trust at www.nationaldebtline.co.uk and Debt Advice Foundation at www.debtadvicefoundation.org. Also, of course, there is the Citizens Advice Bureau. All of these bodies are staffed by specialists with years of experience.

7. Although you say that Local Debt Advisors will enable people to set up as Debt Advisors, isn't it actually the case that they could only be what is normally called "introducers" because under Financial Services regulations they can only offer generic advice and not advice on any specific products? Would the work done by people who train with Debt Advisor Skills simply consist of going to visit the person or talk to them over the telephone in order to obtain information to fill in a form which they then send to a company which is authorised under the Financial Services Authority?

8. If the person is working for Local Debt Advisors (i.e. Forbury Financial Services Ltd) then does this mean that the commission has to be split with Forbury Financial Services since Forbury does not seem to be registered with the FSA, so presumably Forbury then has to pass the details on to an FSA-registered company?

9. I see that you are the sole director of You Skills Ltd, and you are one of two directors of Forbury Financial Ltd, the other director being Dermot Hanley.

According to records at Companies House, in the last eight years you have held eighteen directorships, of which nine are current and nine were in companies which have been dissolved (i.e. they were wound up in a normal fashion with no outstanding debts).

These companies were in a variety of businesses. For example, you described yourself as "Writer/Director/Producer" for one dissolved company called Wallop Ltd, another dissolved company called Futureworks Media seems to have been involved in training for creative jobs, another called Gizmodio Limited was in technology, and yet another company called Peerclix Ltd offered a free ipod to people who referred their friends under a marketing model which you said was demonstrated by "the success of our free Sony PSP site". No accounts were ever lodged at Companies House for Peerclix and it seems that its success did not last long because, despite innovative marketing such as a press release headed "Get to grips with your console and be a better lover ... Peerclix today announced that men who play with hand held games consoles make better lovers" as confirmed by "Internet beauty Loli" and "Her curvy friend Paige", Peerclix was dissolved after about two years in September 2007.

One of your recent companies, Built Environment Skills and Training (BEST) Ltd was in the business of offering training courses costing £3,965 for four modules over eight days to set up in business as a Domestic Energy Assessor to issue Energy Performance Certificates for domestic accommodation under new government legislation. Courses were run in Reading and Birmingham as from 28th April 2008. Potential trainees who responded to the company's advertising were apparently contacted by a telephone salesperson who did not tell them the cost of the course, but invited them to an interview with an aptitude test. Subsequently, they were telephoned to say they had passed the test and asked to come to another appointment as which they were asked to pay for the course in full and to sign an agreement (which they were not allowed to take away with them to read it in detail before they signed). Is this right?

BEST Colleges had a negative adjudication from the Advertising Standards Authority in August 2009 concerning a press advertisement for "Trainee Debt Advisors Urgently Required ... Earn £150 to £1,000 per job". A complainant challenged whether the ad was misleading because he was told at interview that he would have to pay £5,950 to enrol on the training whereas the ad did not mention any fee. The Advertising Standards Authority also added a challenge of their own, querying whether BEST Colleges could substantiate the earnings claim. Both challenges were upheld and the ASA ruled that the advert must not appear again in its current form.

Why was BEST Colleges running these advertisements? All the information for BEST Colleges says that it runs (or, rather, ran) courses to become an energy assessor. Surely, it was You Skills Ltd trading as Debt Advisor Skills which was responsible for these advertisements?

According to an article in the Reading Chronicle dated 12th September 2009, BEST Colleges had 600 students on its books, which suggests that your company received nearly £2.4 million in advance fees. Nevertheless, it went into administration on 18th September 2009, with the appointment of administrators under the Insolvency Act.

The obvious question which arises from the Companies House information on your previous companies is whether you have any knowledge or experience in the field of financial services and debt management?

Your co-director at Local Debt Advisors, Dermot Hanley, describes himself on Companies House records as "Recruitment Director" which suggests he is more sales based, but perhaps he has financial services and debt management experience?

Or is it perhaps the case that the following headings on your website are merited because you have other key personnel with the necessary experience:

• Debt Management Advice - We are experienced Debt Advisors and specialise in debt management, debt counselling and debt consolidation.
  
  
• Consolidation Advice from a Leading UK Debt Specialist
  
  
• Sale and Rent-back from a Leading UK Debt Advisor

Obviously, running a business as an introducer is rather different to running a business as an FSA-registered debt advisor. Do the people who run your courses and who give the marketing advice have experience of running a business as an introducer?

10. Would it be possible for people interested in your course to contact some of the people who have already taken it, in order to obtain a grassroots view of the business? This would be particularly helpful if the list of contacts were to contain people who have been running their businesses for a few months or more.

That's the end of the questions we sent to Local Debt Advisors.

Clearly, if there is a fee to pay and it is more than a couple of hundred pounds then anyone intending to train with Debt Advisor Skills should ask about paying it in instalments, which most training companies allow you to do. And if there is a contract to sign then you should insist on having a copy of it in advance so that you can study it at your leisure.

As I stressed in my review of National Debt Advisors in the March 2009 issue of Business Opportunity Watch, the key to setting up a successful debt advisory business is having a steady supply of good quality leads. You should never pay for leads, or pay over the odds for a package because it says it includes leads, without first of all knowing exactly where these leads come from. (By the way, the website of National Debt Advisors at www.nationaldebtadvisors.co.uk seems to have disappeared.)

One possible source of leads would be the contact details of people who have recently been served with a County Court Judgement. Cold-calling, either by phone or in person, is forbidden, but you could send a letter. However, such people are likely to be inundated with letters from debt management companies, so your response rate would probably be poor.

If, on the other hand, the leads which Local Debt Advisors supplies are their own leads gathered from their own advertising then these should produce a fair response rate although, even then, typical industry experience is that 70% of leads come to nothing. We have asked Local Debt Advisors about the source of their leads.

One of the best sources of leads which is used by FSA-registered debt management advisors is referrals from professionals such as accountants and lawyers. However, it is highly unlikely that such people would be prepared to recommend non-FSA-registered introducers from Local Debt Advisors.

Your best method of marketing will probably be local advertising, such as the local paper and free local magazines.

In addition to the training sources noted under question 3 above, there is now a BTEC Advanced Certificate in Debt Resolution, with three modules requiring about 60 hours of study per module and costing £175 per module. You can find further details on the website of the Debt Resolution Forum at:

http://www.debtresolutionforum.org.uk/training.php

The rating for the training offered by Local Debt Advisors was pending until we had the company's reply to the questions raised.

However, we didn't receive any reply from Local Debt Advisors. In the absence of a reply, we have assessed the rating at zero out of ten.

Rating:

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Your feedback:

Have you tried this opportunity?

If you would like to comment on it please send us an email. Your feedback will then be posted here anonymously unless you tell us that you want your contact details included.


Feedback 17th December 2009 from Prober:

Hi Marian

Thanks for your email and the useful tips regarding leads etc.

I have read the review on the Local Debt Advisors (LDA) with interest. I can confirm that I had actually contacted them after reading their advert in one of the local free weekly rags.

In brief, I contacted and asked a few questions about the advert, was offered a telephone interview there and then as they had received over 2,000 calls and were screening applicants; successful candidates were invited to the Reading Office for a psychometric test and face to face interview with the HR Director (HRD)/nomineeRHH. On the afternoon of the interview at least 5 or 6 candidates were present.

The test was pretty basic (scrap of paper 20 questions) and as I expected I passed (90+ %) not sure why not 100% but it didn't matter.

I was interviewed by the HRD, it lasted just over 1 hour - more like a monologue; the HRD 'reviewed my CV', asked the questions and then proceeded to sell LDA and Debt Advisor Skills - stressing all the benefits of their training, quality of trainers - all professionals etc., their size, future plans for growth nationwide, the number they had already trained and people they had helped. I wasn't allowed to interrupt but on the rare occasions I managed to get in a question the response from the HRD was seldom direct. The training was not accredited but they were hoping to get accreditation in the new year. Finally, I got the shock when I was given a pen and told to write the following on their brochure I was given:

"6 days - training material and tuition, exams, CRB, assisting with CCL (consumer credit licence), £6,150 (incl vat), guaranteed 15 cases per month, contribution from Skills £2,000 (if become LDA after training), Net required £4,150."

Because of time if I had any questions I could contact the HRD on a given telephone number. Obviously I had lots of questions - some more important than others. I sent my list of questions but (not surprisingly) didn't get an answer. So further emails/ telephone calls followed.

To cut a long story short I was able to get some answers on the phone, NEVER in writing. I am attaching my emails to you so you can see the sort of questions I had asked, some similar to the ones you've raised.

They promised 'over the phone' to reduce the £4,150 by offering a grant of around £2k which was repayable only after I had started trading and monthly deductions would arise after I had reached a predetermined target each month. I stressed that as the money had to be repaid it was not a grant but an interest-free loan; after much discussion they agreed. All of this was verbal - nothing in writing.

I decided to terminate my interest because I could not get satisfactory answers to my questions and could not review the contract beforehand - something which I required. As they 'were keen to have me on board' (no LDAs in my area) a meeting between the Area Director and I was arranged at their offices by the HRD. He entered the room with all guns blazing, he only had 10 minutes to spare with me, he only wanted to deal with people who were serious about the business - not time wasters, he couldn't understand my concerns as others had done due diligence and were happy with the terms & conditions - a Judge, an accountant and a solicitor (all professional people) were among those who had signed up and didn't have any problems etc.; on the question of speaking to someone (see my list of questions) absolutely not! Data Protection! I suggested, to circumvent the DP rules, he could pass my tel. number to a couple of the Advisors on his books and get them to call me, oh no! they wouldn't want to speak to anyone, they took the plunge and others could do the same... I thanked him for his time and that ended my interest in the LDA.

For my sins, before the LDA experience I had seen an advert re the Energy Assessor - attended an interview (discussed among other things what EA is all about, cost of the training (which I thought was free), prospects etc.); undertook a computer based psychometric test at their Offices in Tolworth, Surrey. Test results (90+%) were available next day and I was offered a training place; the cost of the training increased by 15% because the fee quoted the previous day was VAT exclusive. In their advert they claimed millions of jobs would be created this year and in the future, but there was no guarantee of employment during the 2 years (immediately following successful completion of the course; the only commitment was to 'possible work' through the sister companies.) Didn't quite stack up!! Finally, like LDA I was required to visit and sign a contract at their offices; I asked to be have access to a copy before hand so that I could review it. This was declined! So I hit it on its head!!!

I would be very surprised if you were to receive any meaningful replies to your probing questions.

Thanks for your assistance with the review and keep up the good work...

Kind regards
Prober


Feedback 14th April 2010 from Scott:

My initial interview and selection process followed a similar pattern to your other correspondent, but I got hooked on the promise that I would be earning by Christmas, and I would get 150 confirmed leads in the first year.

When I went to pay for the course my credit and debit cards were both refused as payment, and they insisted that owing to limited time available I would have to pay by bank transfer.

Our course was held in mid September with the Diploma exam 6 weeks later. I passed the exam but I am still waiting for the Diploma. Time went by and after repeated requests, I was granted a meeting with Dermot Hanley to complete the paperwork, and to arrange the leads. This took place in mid December. The following week I received an email to say the leads had been deferred until after Christmas. Despite several requests to speak to Dermot Hanley I have had no communication with him since then.

In early January I had a visit from our local Trading Standards officers to carry out a compliance visit on behalf of the Office of Fair Trading. The training given by Debt Advisor Skills was supposed to of sufficent standard for the revelant CCL. I have since been advised by our local trading standards office that this is not the case and that before I can practice as as debt advisor I need additional training.

So much for their DIPLOMA COURSE.

It would appear that I have gained absolutely nothing from my time and money invested with Debt Advisor Skills or FORBURY FINANCIAL SERVICES.

BE WARNED!!!!!!!

Regards
Scott

Update 12th May 2010:

Business Opportunity Watch has been contacted by an ex-employee of Forbury Financial who was employed by the company for just two weeks before it closed, and who hasn't been paid.

This person believes that Simon MacTaggart has set up a new company called Assertor Ltd, whose business will be dealing with claims for mis-sold loans and mortgages.

Update October 2010:

Simon MacTaggart's company, You Skills Limited, was struck off and dissolved, according to records at Companies House, on 19th October 2010. This is a route which can only be used when a company has not traded for the previous three months and where they have warned all their creditors, employees etc

Forbury Financial Ltd was about to be struck off by Companies House, perhaps because they are over three months late in submitting their accounts. Someone objected, though - possibly a creditor - and so the striking off action has now been suspended.

One of Simon MacTaggart's earlier training companies, Best Colleges Ltd, has now been dissolved. It went into administration under the Insolvency Act in September 2009. The administrator of Best Colleges Ltd produced a Sworn Statement of Affairs as at 18th September 2009 which showed an estimated deficiency of nearly £4.4 million.

A further Simon MacTaggart company, Assertor Ltd, which was a claims management company advising on claims for mis-sold mortgages and loans, is also about to be struck off under the normal voluntary procedure.

Simon MacTaggart's record of directorships at Companies House makes for miserable reading, since he has been the director of 15 companies since 2003 and they have all either been dissolved or are about to be dissolved.

Update 17th November 2010:
Debt advisor training
What is the best way to train to become a debt advisor?

If you want to train to become a debt advisor, then it's better to avoid the risk of paying a lump sum to a recently-established debt advisor training company which doesn't have a track record of expertise and which may not last the course (as was the case with Local Debt Advisors).

So what are the more traditional, well-established sources of training to be a debt advisor?

We asked David Rodger, Managing Director of Debt Advice Foundation, the national charity at www.debtadvicefoundation.org. which offers free, impartial support and advice to anyone worried about debt, whether as a business or as a consumer. Here's his advice:

"The problem is that the consumer debt advice industry lags way behind other financial services industries in terms of regulation simply because no one government department owns it or understands it!

In terms of individual advisors, the most appropriate course materials are probably provided by Institute of Money Advisors (http://www.i-m-a.org.uk/qualifications/) or if the person is particularly capable, ambitious and has the resources to fund the study, they can train to be an Insolvency Practitioner (either via a legal or accountancy route) - http://www.insolvency-practitioners.org.uk/page.aspx?pageID=122.

Other money advice qualifications are provided by:

CCCS - http://www.cccs.co.uk/training.aspx; I've not had too much feedback about the quality of the course but it is Ofqual accredited, which means it must be pretty good.

DRF - http://www.debtresolutionforum.org.uk/training.php; DRF is a self-regulatory body for the commercial debt sector. Whilst the other courses mentioned definitely carry more kudos in the free advice sector, this course may be looked upon favourably by commercial employers."

David points out, however, that Local Debt Advisors over-stated the typical earnings for debt advisors (unless you become a Insolvency Practitioner, which requires a professional insolvency qualification).

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